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Advice on SQ set up HU and speakers..


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#1 Unclebill

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Posted 06 Jun 2018 - 22:11

Hi guys.. First post so go easy.

I'm looking to build a nice SQ set up.. I have not been in the game for over 10 years, but my last set up was pretty nice.. I sold most of my old kit

So having not been in the game for such a long time. I won't know much about the things that have changed and what products are the best on the past/current market for my needs.

I have always in the past been a CD spinner, but have now moved on to computer files, for simplicity easy of use and features. Plus I don't have to worry about discs getting scratched, like lots of my old ones did..

I am looking for the best SQ HU solution with no CD drive, and a USB input for my needs..

So can I ask you guys nicely for some friendly advice..?

I am bulding this system around a 'prescission power A404 arts series' 4 channel amp.. So I am looking for some speakers too.. Not sure if I will use it in 2 channel or 4 channel mode as I don't have the car yet.

Maybe if I use the amp in 2 channel mode just for speakers upfront L/R. Then I could use the other 2 spare channels of the amp to power my 2 JL audio IB4 12's, or is this not such a good idea.? Although if I did this I would have to buy a frequency controller maybe, unless I could output this from the HU as the amp does not have freqency control for a subwoofer.. Amp rated at 50watts p/c x 4.

The subs I have are only rated at 125watts each, and are not long throw drive units. I have not used the A404 art amp yet, but maybe it would work like this.? If not I maybe looking at a separate amp for sub bass duties..

In the past I used the 'JL audio xr series' components and thought they were nicer sounding and much warmer than the dls iridiums I had.. I prefer the warmer/richer sound, to the nutral

I suppose my 'Zapco sxsl II' would be made redundant..?

I do have power supply for the zapco and rca output wires..

I have not got the car yet like I say so just throwing ideas about..

All advice welcome.. Cheers Adam.

Edited by Unclebill, 07 Jun 2018 - 00:15.


#2 Unclebill

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Posted 07 Jun 2018 - 21:32

Wow over 50 views and not 1 reply..?

Well despite this I have been looking around and it seems I'm looking at a Sony HU I think I know which one..

No advice on the speakers and amp situation then I take it..?

#3 Maxiboy

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Posted 08 Jun 2018 - 22:48

I know very little about the amp... but i have just done the same sort of thing and i,m wondering how you download or store music flies on your computer..

 

I changed from an alpine to pioneer head unit the other month as its the only unit that plays Flac files without having to convert all my files or end up reducing the quality of recordings to play MP3's

 

As for speakers from all I've read either use two channels for front components or all four channels powering front components .. depending on the kit

 

I bought a five channel. running four channels bridged to the front and rear sub on the fifth channel.. ditched the rear speakers as it ruins the sound-stage.

 

looking at the pdf 200w bridged into 4 ohms would be ideal for fronts and add a mono sub amp and sub...

 

but im no expert


Edited by Maxiboy, 08 Jun 2018 - 22:50.


#4 Unclebill

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Posted 10 Jun 2018 - 22:31

I know very little about the amp... but i have just done the same sort of thing and i,m wondering how you download or store music flies on your computer..

I changed from an alpine to pioneer head unit the other month as its the only unit that plays Flac files without having to convert all my files or end up reducing the quality of recordings to play MP3's

As for speakers from all I've read either use two channels for front components or all four channels powering front components .. depending on the kit

I bought a five channel. running four channels bridged to the front and rear sub on the fifth channel.. ditched the rear speakers as it ruins the sound-stage.

looking at the pdf 200w bridged into 4 ohms would be ideal for fronts and add a mono sub amp and sub...

but im no expert

Thanks for the reply... What you have said has been duly noted..

I think you would be right in thinking that I should get a separate bass amp for my 2 subwoofers.. I shall have to look into this further.. I don't know what's on the market that would be good for me..

As I said before I do not have the car yet.. But I will be pretty much building the stereo around it, and not the other way round.. With me wanting to keep my 2 JL Audio IB4 12" subs I will be looking for a saloon car this time round. Maybe a second hand BMW..?

I am not sure about amp and speaker configuration yet, or to run the latest amp I have in 2 channel or 4 channel mode.. I will have to see, but in the past I have liked a bit of 'rear fill'..

Now that I sold all 4 of my JL Audio e series amps on the last install. I will need another for bass duties.. Any recommendations guys..?

Since I sold my old denon HU a long time ago and got into computer files as a source I have just pulled the plug on a Sony RSX-GS9..

I suppose I won't need the zapco processor anymore..? As it looks like the HU has an Eq and frequency control to output from the source to the amps.. Is this right..?

The old school 4 channel 'precision power arts series A404' amp I have does not have a frequency control on it just a gain control. I have never tested this amp yet, and I just hope it works.

Can I ask nicely for any recommendations on speaker components and a good bass amp..? Am I looking at a set of Hertz, and JL Audio bass amp..? I'm after good quality and value for money..

This is the kit I have now..

Thanks Adam..

Attached Files


Edited by Unclebill, 10 Jun 2018 - 23:01.


#5 Maxiboy

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Posted 11 Jun 2018 - 19:34

Yeah newer headunits have a lot of inbuilt processors but never sure how good it is but using it on mine at the moment.

 

I've gone with morel components as i got a good deal on a used set.. you need to give a budget so people can now what to  recommend.  hertz and JL are both well respected.

 

you could run the real fill of the headunit if it has an internal amp.. i do that but only use it if i have passengers in the rear..

 

Hope you get some good advice soon


Edited by Maxiboy, 11 Jun 2018 - 19:34.


#6 Unclebill

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Posted 12 Jun 2018 - 01:40

Yeah newer headunits have a lot of inbuilt processors but never sure how good it is but using it on mine at the moment.

I've gone with morel components as i got a good deal on a used set.. you need to give a budget so people can now what to recommend. hertz and JL are both well respected.

you could run the real fill of the headunit if it has an internal amp.. i do that but only use it if i have passengers in the rear..

Hope you get some good advice soon

Thanks

I think with the new HU I have just ordered it should be fine.. I chose the Sony as it fitted the bill for me. No internal amp no disc drive, they say it has a good dac and processor, time alignment sub and frequency control and the rest. It will even handle high quality music files.. I got a deal on a new Sony at £800 delivered, and for what it is its competition spec.. Just like my old HU..

It looks like I will sell the zapco processor I have, because I recon I just won't need it anymore, especially now the denon HU has been sold.. I don't know why I kept it all this time, its been in storage years..

The arts amp I have does not have any frequency crossover control, but if I remember rightly I don't think I ever used that on my old amps for the components either front or rear speakers. They had a bypass switch on them, and I used them like that..

For the sub amp I am thinking maybe a JL Audio slash series 250/1v2..

I know that this was a good amp back in the day, and think it still would be a good one today. Lots of the old gear is really good. Its only a small power bass amp that i am looking for, so I am open to ideas if anyone has any..?

I know just about all JL Audio gear is good, some of it really good.. So maybe I should look at some components from JL Audio. I am not sure what I should get yet, but in the past I have had good success with JL audio speakers and amps.

I would budget maybe £500 max for a bass amp, and would prefer if I could output a 'stereo' signal for the 2 free air subs.. The 2 JL audio subs I have were bought new and were hardly used in my last install. I am looking forward to hearing these subs again.. Real nice subs trust me.

My budget for components would be £800, but they would have to be exceptional performers.. Sometimes a higher price does not mean, better performance.. Maybe I could get something that would be good in a lower price bracket..?

So can anyone advise..?

Thanks Adam

Edited by Unclebill, 12 Jun 2018 - 01:59.


#7 steve71075

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Posted 12 Jun 2018 - 10:44

That is probably the nicest looking head unit I've seen , not up on the specs but believe it does three way active ?

If it were me I'd sell the amp , processor and subs and start again .

Seems massive volume is not what your after , I would look for a nice 5 channel amplifier maybe a Genesis or dls if you want to stay with class ab or one of the newer class d offerings like a jl audio hd etc . A Genesis should be easily found for £350 .

Nice set of two way components, or I would prefer to buy separate mids and tweeters as the crossovers would be redundant if you use the crossovers in the Sony .

Scanspeak d3004 and sb acoustics satori mw16p seems a tried tested and well liked combo for approx £430 . Or perhaps a wideband driver/midbass combo ?

I've never run an ib sub setup , but if was going too the fi offering seems to highly rated .

There's loads of options , perhaps get yourself down to one if the meets and listen to a few cars before buying and remember the install is everything .

#8 Unclebill

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Posted 12 Jun 2018 - 15:46

That is probably the nicest looking head unit I've seen , not up on the specs but believe it does three way active ?
If it were me I'd sell the amp , processor and subs and start again .
Seems massive volume is not what your after , I would look for a nice 5 channel amplifier maybe a Genesis or dls if you want to stay with class ab or one of the newer class d offerings like a jl audio hd etc . A Genesis should be easily found for £350 .
Nice set of two way components, or I would prefer to buy separate mids and tweeters as the crossovers would be redundant if you use the crossovers in the Sony .
Scanspeak d3004 and sb acoustics satori mw16p seems a tried tested and well liked combo for approx £430 . Or perhaps a wideband driver/midbass combo ?
I've never run an ib sub setup , but if was going too the fi offering seems to highly rated .
There's loads of options , perhaps get yourself down to one if the meets and listen to a few cars before buying and remember the install is everything .

Thanks for the input..

Glad you like the look of the Sony, it seems nice, and exactly what I am after..

I was just recently looking at maybe a 1 amp solution, from JL Audio either a 5 channel or 3 channel offering.. I also did see some speakers they sell without the passive crossovers to run active..

I think maybe I should run passive crossovers included with a set of components, for ease of use and after all they would be matched to the voice the manufacturer intended.

Its possible the complete system will need setting up with sound analysing gear at some point maybe.

I have decided I am definitely keeping the 2 JL Audio IB4 subs. As I am going to get a saloon car so it only makes sense.. These subs are like gold dust and were probably the best IB units ever made.. They have won many a sound competition, especially in America..

As for the 'old school' arts amp I have, its supposed to be a bit special too.. I believe it was designed by the same guy that designed some of the JL Audio amps.. And in the cosmetic condition it is in, if it works I'm onto a winner with this.. I believe this was a $500 amp in the USA over 20 years ago.. So anyone can guess it should be pretty good.. Some may know the 'precision power' company got bought out and turned into total crap..

I have decided to get a new JL Audio slash 250/1v2 for sub bass duties.. I don't think it would output a stereo signal to the subs, but..

Out of all the kit I have now.. The only thing I will sell, would be the zapco processor, as it is now made redundant and of no use to me.

I may even get another pair of JL Audio XR series, as I know what to expect.. Or who knows I may buy the latest offering from JL.

The only thing I am not certain about is what conponents to get. I will have to look into this.. I prefer a warm rich sound over a neutral..

Suggestions anyone..?

Thanks Adam

Edited by Unclebill, 12 Jun 2018 - 18:05.


#9 Twonks

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Posted 12 Jun 2018 - 18:21

Hi Adam and welcome to TalkStuff.

 

You have some stunning kit there and I for one would try and keep the amp if at all possible. I remember them from way back and yes they are rather special.

 

Trying to find more to match it would be almost impossible without going over the pond, and you'd probably have to pay a small fortune.

 

Having said that, if you embrace the new tech and kit it might give an better overall synergy going for something like a Helix P Six processor/6ch amp to run everything from the Sony.

 

I don't think the head unit has more than basic processing, but it will give you a very clean signal into a processor that does.

 

Some more reading is probably advised and I'm sure others will join in as time goes by. We have a lot of members with a huge amount of history and experiance - most will remember the precision amps.



#10 Unclebill

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Posted 12 Jun 2018 - 19:22

Hi Adam and welcome to TalkStuff.

You have some stunning kit there and I for one would try and keep the amp if at all possible. I remember them from way back and yes they are rather special.

Trying to find more to match it would be almost impossible without going over the pond, and you'd probably have to pay a small fortune.

Having said that, if you embrace the new tech and kit it might give an better overall synergy going for something like a Helix P Six processor/6ch amp to run everything from the Sony.

I don't think the head unit has more than basic processing, but it will give you a very clean signal into a processor that does.

Some more reading is probably advised and I'm sure others will join in as time goes by. We have a lot of members with a huge amount of history and experiance - most will remember the precision amps.

Thanks for the warm welcome..

It looks like the Sony HU has an optical output so I could run that to an amp/processor with compatible input. I was looking at a JL Audio VX 1000 5 channel amp, but its expensive mind..

You are right in thinking I should keep the arts amp if I can help it. I did not even know it got delivered from America over 7 years ago.. I thought it never got collected from the post office, and went back to the sender.. So I was pleased to find this in the house and that mum went and collected it. As you can see the amps in real good cosmetic condition for its age.. I just hope it works as it should.. It was a nice surprise to find this amp.. It made me dig out some more of my old kit..

If this new Sony HU I just ordered will sound as good as my old denon HU then I recon I will be pleased. I will never go back to a CD player source again, either in car or home. I was pretty late to get into computer file formats but will never look back..

Maybe I could get a separate DSP unit in the boot, with optical input wired up to the amps through rca..?

I will take a look at the helix amp/processor you mention.. Like you say more reading/advice is needed.

My preference would be a good separate DSP.. Keep the arts amp and get a JL slash series 250/1v2 for bass maybe..

Anyone know of anything to fit my needs.?

Thanks Adam

Edited by Unclebill, 12 Jun 2018 - 23:13.


#11 Unclebill

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Posted 14 Jun 2018 - 01:14

Well guys.. I think I have changed my mind on the JL sub amp.. Even though I know it would be good. I think I'm gonna go Alpine instead.. I've never had any alpine kit before, so it will make a change.. I have a nice amp in mind.. I shall probably place an order next week..

As far as the separate DSP goes with an optical input..

I might be looking at Audison bit one, or a helix HX DSP/ DSP.2

Any advice on the DSP guys..?

Which one should I choose..?

Thanks Adam.

Edited by Unclebill, 15 Jun 2018 - 01:00.


#12 p.s.sound

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Posted 14 Jun 2018 - 11:05

As far as the separate DSP goes with an optical input..
I might be looking at Audison bit one, or a helix HX DSP/ DSP.2
Any advice on the DSP guys..?
Which one should I choose..?
Thanks Adam.

 

Hi,

Many people can approve that it's hard to beat any Helix DSP. I can only recommend them too, i don't use or sell anything else either. 

Peter


Edited by p.s.sound, 14 Jun 2018 - 11:05.

EMMA UK Champion 2015 - Advanced Unlimited

EMMA UK Champion 2017 - Multimedia Skilled 2.1

EMMA European Champion 2017 - Multimedia Skilled 2.1

Audible Physics UK, Audiotec Fisher - Match / Helix / Brax, Tchernov Cable, Fiio

 


#13 Unclebill

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Posted 14 Jun 2018 - 17:45

Hi,
Many people can approve that it's hard to beat any Helix DSP. I can only recommend them too, i don't use or sell anything else either. 
Peter


Cheers for the advice peter its always welcome, as is anyone's..

I had a feeling I would be looking at a helix..

What model number is my best bet would you say for my use pal..?

Thanks Adam.

#14 Unclebill

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Posted 15 Jun 2018 - 21:35

Come to think of it..

Will I really need a separate DSP unit with this new Sony RSX-GS9 HU I just ordered..?

Like mentioned earlier on in the thread,it may have only basic sound control parameters..?

But will I need more than the basics..?

Of course it would be best to run a optical output to a separate DSP then wire up to the amps through rca keeping the cable runs as short as possible. But would I really gain much using a DSP with the sony.?

Like said before I have no intention of running active speakers, so that's a feature I don't need in a DSP anyway..

Any advice guys..?

Thanks adam

Edited by Unclebill, 16 Jun 2018 - 07:49.


#15 Unclebill

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Posted 16 Jun 2018 - 18:16

Oh come on guys show some charity, for a poor guy tranna get to grips with the latest gear, and make a go of an install.

I've not had one in years..

Its only a bit of advice I'm after, from people that I expect will know better than I.. Please don't all go cold on me..


I just hope this does not turn into another car forum :(

Thanks in anticipation..

Adam

Edited by Unclebill, 16 Jun 2018 - 22:20.


#16 Twonks

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Posted Yesterday, 08:48

Please be a little but more patient Adam.

 

You have the eyes and ears of some of the best car audio guys in Europe (and further afield) in our little forum.

 

A lot of them work 9-5 in car audio and their weekends are probably spent away from the day job, so sitting on car audio forums on a Saturday probably isn't high on the list.

 

Expecting answers instantly and moaning when they don't come will get you precisely nowhere.

 

Moderator bit out of the way, if you have the rest of the kit and install to be realtively unhindered by the cars acoustics, then yes the Sony head unit alone playing into amps will most likely be great.

 

If you have slight install features that prevent the drivers being optimally positioned, a 'full' DSP can work wonders due to the control they have over individual channels.

 

In your position you have half the kit and I'd be inclined to install what you have. If it doesn't sound right, or you can't EQ / filter lumps and bumps out on the Sony, then you could look to add a processor into the loop, and go fully active. (you are not going to be using the kit to it's potential if you don't go active anyway)

 

If you find your existing setup doesn't cut it, you could look to a DSP/Amp in one (like the P-Six) at that point instead of chasing SQ with kit that will ever reach your goals.

 

Wouldn't worry too much about cable lengths and ultimate quality of RCA's etc. It has such little effect on the overall sound (especially in a car) that your money and time is better spent elsewhere.



#17 Unclebill

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Posted Yesterday, 13:20

Thanks for the reply..

I did not figure this was a 'small forum' I thought it was maybe more active.. I apologize for my haste and not talking, some other things into account..

I suppose I'm a little excited too, and have had the odd forum nightmare in my past.

I think you would be right in saying I should install what I have and then take things from there and see if I need a separate dps.. I think some of the potential problems I may have 'dialing in' my kit would be down to how good my local car audio guy would be.. I know he really knows his stuff and has been into it years, but that would depend 'if' he wanted to set the gear up to optimum performance levels.. This guy has shown spite with me in past and given me purposely bad advice which I have followed, and subsequently sabotaged my last install.

So the helix DSP aside for the moment..

If I run active crossovers I will get the optimum performance out of a set of components that would come with passive crossover networks anyway..? In what way could this be improved over what the manufacturer intends, or would this be best for a mix & match set of components..?

I have Never been active before, but I am thinking passive is less hassle, and less things to get wrong, also would it not be changing the 'voice' of the speakers the manufacturer intended them to have..

For someone wanting the least hassle, but yet still good performance.. Would it not be best to run passive..? If I can set up, Eq get things dialed in what gains could I see running active, and would it be wise to do so..?

In the past I have always used good wires, in home and car.. I prefer silver plated copper.. I can't comment on improved performance in car as I never did an A-B comparison test, but in the home it makes quite a difference, one you can hear.. If you have reasonable kit that is.. Maybe it could be different in car, but I can't comment from any past experience..

Well back over to the speakers line choice..

I'm after something warm, inviting, well rounded, musical and punchy too if I can help it. I really did like the characteristics of my old JL audio XR series. Would I bee looking at a set of Hertz..?

Willing to pay up to £800 tops but if I can get something cheaper with really good sound for my needs, that would be even better..

Any recommendations, for my needs guys..?

Thanks Adam

Edited by Unclebill, Yesterday, 13:44.


#18 Fourtwo62

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Posted Yesterday, 13:43

Hi

 

I love following builds, but I am a little confused :wacko:

What car is this going in?



#19 Unclebill

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Posted Yesterday, 16:26

Hi

I love following builds, but I am a little confused :wacko:
What car is this going in?

Hi and thanks for the comment.

This is not an 'build/install' thread.. Its more an advice/idea and selection thread, in preparation for a build/install..

As stated earlier I don't have the car yet, and i will be building the system around the car.. Not the car around the system..

As also stated previously, I am looking to get a saloon type of car, because I would like to keep my JL Audio IB subwoofers, and a saloon car would be my best bet for these..

I was thinking of getting maybe a second hand BMW saloon, but I have yet to make a final decision.. The car I am looking for has to fit around my requirements and needs.. Also looking to fit a single din HU, with minimal fuss

Can anyone recommend to me a readily available car type sold on the UK market. With a large rear deck to fit in the 2 12"IB subs,I want to keep, with good speaker locations for a set of components..?

I would probably like to pay no more than £5,000 but maybe slightly more, being dependent.. Not bothered about a big engine would prefer an auto box and petrol engine..

Any input appreciated..

Thanks Adam.

Edited by Unclebill, Yesterday, 21:50.